The Archbishop of the Catholic Archdiocese of Lagos, Alfred Adewale Martins, turned 54 last Saturday and was treated to a memorable birthday bash by members of the Order of the Knights of St. Mulumba, Lagos Metropolitan Council, at the church hall of the Holy Cross Cathedral, Lagos, on that day. On the sidelines of the event, Archbishop Martins shared his thoughts on the state of the nation with journalists where he bemoaned the failure of governance in the country, among other issues. ONYEDIKA AGBEDO was there.

HOW do you feel marking your 54th birthday in good health and sound mind?

For me as an individual, everyday offers a unique opportunity to ponder on and appreciate the goodness of the Lord in my life. It is even more so when one considers the rare privilege He has given me to share in the priesthood of Christ. And so, for me, the gift of today in which I recall the mystery of my existence and vocation is one for deeper reflection, particularly when one considers the sorry state of affairs in our country Nigeria.

Incidentally, the country recently marked 14 years of uninterrupted democratic rule. How would you assess the journey so far?

Precisely on Wednesday May 29, the nation marked 14 years of uninterrupted democratic governance. On that day, we also recalled those that paid the supreme price in our collective quest for democracy. As usual, the various Dailies were buzzing with congratulatory messages from agents and political allies of those in government, singing their praises to high heaven for a job well done. Billions of tax payers’ money were expended in organising seminars, book presentations, and other forms of celebration all in the name of marking Democracy Day. In the midst of all these, we need to ask ourselves a basic question: Has our democratic experiences truly impacted positively on the lives of majority of Nigerians or merely on a select few? The answer is obvious. Beyond the razzmatazz and media hype that characterised the Democracy Day celebration, the truth is that we are still far from the Promised Land. All we have been receiving over the years have been more of promises than action. The result can be seen in the large number of jobless youths, dwindling basic infrastructures of inadequate power supply, insecurity and general ineptitude in the system.

Policy makers in the country should rise up to the challenge of nation building. At this period of our national life, what Nigerians need is to see practical steps by their leaders to alleviate the growing rate of sufferings in the land. They want to see good governance. We have gone through a lot as a nation and we have been hearing promises upon promises.

What is your take on the political crisis in Rivers State, which has pitched President Goodluck Jonathan and the national leadership of the Peoples’ Democratic Party (PDP) against the state governor, Rotimi Chibuike Amaechi?

To me, the dimension, which the imbroglio has now taken, leaves much to be desired. It is an unnecessary heating up of the polity and an ill wind that blows no one no good. It is regrettable that rather than focusing on delivering the fruits of democracy to the citizens of this country, the various gladiators have chosen to dissipate invaluable time and enormous resources in fueling selfish personal vendetta for unjustifiable personal reasons. The people of Rivers State and in deed the whole Nigeria deserve a better deal. I want to, therefore, call on all those concerned to toe the path of peace and resolve the matter amicably for the good of all.

How would you react to increasing insecurity in the land, especially the Boko Haram insurgency that led to the declaration of a state of emergency in three states in the northern part of the country?

Members of the Boko Haram sect have held the country hostage for sometime now. Unfortunately, the circumstances have made the state of emergency necessary in the states of Borno, Yobe and Adamawa. We hope the alternative peace moves would still be pursued. I wish to appreciate the immense sacrifices being made by members of the various security agencies, including the armed forces to protect the territorial integrity of our nation and secure the lives of innocent citizens. I also wish to commend President Jonathan for initiating various peace moves aimed at finding a lasting solution to the Boko Haram menace.

However, I want, for the sake of emphasis, to align myself with the position of the Catholic Bishops Conference of Nigeria (CBNC) that the proposed amnesty for Boko Haram sect members should be approached with caution. In the first place, we must know the identity of these sect members and there must be genuine repentance on their part that would then pave the way for true reconciliation.

Further still, as we have always re-iterated, for lasting peace to reign in this country, the President must call a conference of all the various ethnic groups and stakeholders in the country so that we may collectively fashion out the best way to live in peace and harmony. I believe that such a move has become imperative even as we begin the count-down to the 2015 general election. Since it is the duty of government to provide adequate security for lives and properties of its citizens, it would be foolhardy to disregard the perceived genuine grievances of any group of people in the country.

Some northern elders recently faulted the state of emergency option in tackling the Boko Haram menace, saying it endangers other peace moves…

I believe that any policy decision that is taken is bound to create acceptance and rejection. But what is important is whether this policy is capable of delivering the result that you expect. And if it is capable of doing it, then those who have taken that decision need to press on with it irrespective of whatever the oppositions may be.

However, when we are talking about emergency, let us also continue to remind those who are engaged in this as soldiers that they have to do it according to their rules of engagement. They should not go there and start trampling upon the rights of people or unnecessarily endanger lives. Rather, they should restrict themselves to their rules of engagement. That is the only way the state of emergency will reach the conclusion that Nigerians want.

In any case, I remember that the Boko Haram sect members were offered amnesty and the people who were offered the amnesty said that they don’t accept it. Now, if you were talking to a people who said they don’t accept what you are offering, naturally you would want to think of other ways of ensuring that the goal that you want is attained. But like I said earlier, if we pursue state of emergency as a way, we must also not disregard the peace initiatives that are there. The peace initiatives as well as bits of muscling up are both necessary in order to attain the kind of goal that we want for our nation.

Members of the National Assembly have repeatedly argued that as representatives of the people, they have the capacity to address the issues confronting the nation and so there will no need for a national conference as you have suggested…

When I say national conference, I am referring to a forum that will bring people of all interest categories together for a discussion on issues that pertain to the nation and its people. Now, that is not the same as a forum whose recommendation becomes law. The forum I am talking about should be created for people to speak and make their points clear, which would be presented in such a way that even though it does not have the value law, it has a status that the National Assembly cannot disregard because this is the voice of the people themselves.

Come to think of it: The legislators do not necessarily represent the entire population that they are supposed to be representing because the parties go through their own process of selecting those who will contest elections. Whereas if the people develop their own ways, not just of sending people to political parties but of sending people that they know and trust to this kind of forum that is not necessarily political, I think that would have a different form of influence upon the discussion that we are talking about.

Therefore, whereas the National Assembly can be doing its own work, it is also possible to have this kind of forum that would do its own brainstorming on the issues of the state of the nation. Some may argue that it would amount to a waste of time because the decisions reached would not have the force of law. But the fact of the matter is that if these constitute what people from all over the nation accept as the way forward, I believe those who are in government at this particular point in time cannot afford not to listen because it will affect their return to power when it is time for election.

There have been calls on government to compensate victims of the Boko Haram attacks but it appears that government is thinking otherwise even though there have been no policy statement on that. Do you think such calls are justified?

I think it is only a matter of justice that government should give compensation to those who have been unduly deprived of their livelihood, those who have lost their loved ones and those who have been completely thrown out of gear by the activities of the Boko Haram sect. It is only appropriate, it is only a matter of justice that they should be supported and compensated in some way that would ensure that they are able to have their lives back.

Some people are talking about amnesty in terms of giving money to those who renounce Boko Haram. I personally do not believe that amnesty should involve payment of money. If it involves payment of money, we shall be going the same route that we have gone in Niger Delta with all kinds of character coming up and claiming to be part the scheme. And in any case, the Niger Delta issue is so completely different from the Boko Haram matter. Therefore, they should not be placed on the same pedestal. If there is somebody paid out for amnesty for Boko Haram and support is not given to those who are victims of the crimes that were/are committed by the members of the sect, then it is gross injustice.

Aside Boko Haram, how do you think government can generally tackle the problem of insecurity in the country?

I believe that our security agencies need to be strengthened much more than they are presently. They need to be strengthened and empowered to carry out there duties. They need to be strengthened in terms of being provided with the tools that they need to carry out their work, strengthened in terms of being properly remunerated; strengthened by being covered by insurance because of the risky nature of the work that they are doing. I believe that if some or all of these are truly and properly addressed, the security agencies themselves will feel better committed to do the work they have been employed to do.

You can see that sometimes some of our security agencies, like the police, are not even proud of the work that they are doing because of the fact that they are just not sometimes treated right within the environment they find themselves. Not long ago we were all regaled with the story of decay about the Police College in Ikeja here in Lagos not to talk of the Police colleges in other parts of the federation. Well, it was good that the president went and saw it and we hope that means that would be the beginning of really making efforts to deal with providing security agencies the wherewithal that they need in dealing with the security issues that we contend with in our nation.

But I believe also that apart from the security agencies, we too as citizens have a big role to play because the Police or the State Security Service (SSS) cannot manufacture solutions to security issues in the country if people are not giving them information. That means, therefore, that we as citizens need also to be very much aware of our environment; we need to pay attention to what is happening around us.

It appears that religious leaders in the country now shy away from speaking out on issues concerning the nation. What do you see as responsible for this trend?

Well, I don’t know about that except, of course, if you think that some of these things that I am talking about are not relevant. But I think that there are a number of religious leaders who also bare their minds on some of the issues that concern the welfare of the nation and the citizens. I believe that that characterisation does not necessarily cover everyone that can be regarded as a religious leader.

What do you say about the attitude where religious leaders live in opulence, with some of them even buying private jets, while their followers are pauperised?

Let me say that we as religious leaders have Jesus Christ as our model. As religious leaders, his style of life and living is what is our guide. The style of life that Jesus laid out for us is that of simplicity, charity and being found with only that which you really need not necessarily what you want. So, that is the guide, as we understand it. And so, I suppose that is interpreted in different ways by different people. However, we know what the basic principle is. I mean, the Holy Father, Pope Francis, does not have a private jet neither does the Queen of England and the Prime Minister of Great Britain. But as I said, there are different ways by which people interpret that which they consider as their needs.

How do you think the country can address the problem of inordinate quest for political offices?

A good number of those who are attracted inordinately to political offices are people who rarely have the service of people in their hearts. And that is why they will do anything at all to claim that their people have just dragged them from where they were to come and contest. It is something that we hear from time to time. However, we all know that to want to serve in public office ought to be for the welfare and good of the greatest number.

So, I think we need to ask those who go to engage in politics what their professions are exactly. I think that if some of these men and women are successful in their different professions, if they are men and women that have attained a particular mark in their different professions, they would not want to go there and sacrifice the kind of integrity that they have built up over the years. I think those who are engaged in selecting men and women to contest for political offices should also use that as one of the criteria for determining who would represent them. I think it is only those kinds of men that would have the kind of integrity and name that they would want to protect as against what we find currently.

But that is not to say that there are no men and women of integrity who are in politics; that is also not to say that there are not highly professional people in politics. There are!  But I think that if each party were to ensure that these were the kind of people they chose without giving consideration to others, I think things would be better than they are.  The electorate also has to consider this and other such matters in deciding whom to vote for.

What roles do you think the church can play in enthroning such men and women of integrity into political offices in the country?

One of the things that the Catholic church does is trying to sensitise its lay faithful to their roles as far as the nation is concerned. The lay men and women have the responsibility of renewing the face of the earth in a specific direct manner as in engaging in politics and other areas of life that impact on the welfare of the nation. And so what the church needs and wishes to continue to do is to equip them with the kind of principles that are necessary in order to succeed and do well when they occupy such positions.

The Catholic Social Forum presents an opportunity for imparting values and principles that should ensure that men and women of the Catholic church who join politics are people who are ready for such positions. So, the church would continue in that direction and we hope that many more of our people would also take the lead of getting engaged in politics.

The Catholic Diocese of Ahiara in Mbaise, Imo State has been in crisis for sometime now over the appointment of a new Bishop for the diocese. What is the church doing to restore peace?

The objections over the appointment of the new Bishop of the dioceses were carried too far by some men and women of the diocese. I said some because from time to time I receive calls and even visits from people who say that they are from there and that they are ashamed of what is happening. There are many people who have said that. But unfortunately, these dissenting voices are usually not the loud ones; they are not usually very much heard. And that is why we continue to encourage people who have this opinion that is the correct one to also bring their opinions to the forefront and let others know that there is an alternative view to that which is being projected by those who are protesting.

Again, I must say that it is unfortunate that these kinds of consideration are creeping into the church in terms of the appointment of people into offices. I hope that by the grace of God, we shall not see this sort of embarrassing event any more.

There is a procedure that has been followed over centuries in electing Bishops in the Catholic church. The same procedures of finding out, seeking opinions and consulting people were followed in this circumstance. But for whatever reason, there is this group of people who believe that unless their own will is accepted, it is not the right thing to do. It’s a very sorry, sad thing to have happened.

Bishop Okpaleke is the one that was appointed.  The Holy Father has asked him to engage in dialogue with the men and women of the diocese to help them realise that the value of what has been decided is just the appropriate thing. This is with the hope that this kind of dialogue will help to heal the wounds, which have unfortunately gone fairly deep. And they need to be healed. So, the Bishop, I’m sure will take steps towards that. I am also sure that with the support of other Catholic Bishops in Nigeria and the Holy Sea; and the grace of God working with us, this problem will be something of the past.