Guardian

Chief Chibudom Nwuche,  former Deputy Speaker of the House of Representatives, spoke to SAMSON EZEA on sundry issues.

What is your view on the ongoing constitution review? Is it really necessary ?

I may not be the right person to ask, because already I have taken a step. I have for the time in the National Assembly in 2003 prepared a position paper on contitution amendment and went to submit it to the Senate. When I was in the National Assembly, I was also the Deputy Co-chair of the review panel on the constitution.

I believe our constitution, as it is, will not help Nigeria to grow. Nigeria has a structural problem that we must address. Anybody who is put to run this country would have difficulties to succeed, because the structure is wrong.

The centre is too powerful; we are not a true federation that we should be and  need to devolve power to the various regions. States are too small and too many in number and some can hardly pay salaries.

There are no checks and balances at the state level. In most states, the Asembies are in their governors pocket, so the governors if they perform, it is because of their conscience.

There is no external pressure on any governor to perform. Those that are performing, it is just that they have a conscience, otherwise, in terms of institutional checks, there is none.

The states are too small, that is why I advocate for regionalism. Let us go back to the six region structure, because that is the only time that Nigeria recorded measurable and noticeable progress.

Let us use the six zones as the building block for our federation, so that members of the House of Representatives will go back to their regions  and build the regional Assembly, while we will only have one national parliament, which to me, will be cheaper for us.

The cost of maintaining 109 senators and 360 House of Representatives members is too much for the country. We can’t afford it, as a poor country.

If you look at our oil production and our population, we produce 2.6m barrels, with a population of over 160 million people, so the per capita is not much when you do the calculation.

I advocate that we have one national Assembly of lets say, 109 members, depending on the figure we will agree on per zone, while the House of Representatives members will populate the zonal assemblies. That way, a zonal premier or governor, for instance, will have a robust Assembly that will check him.

How can a governor of the South-South region, for instance, with the Ijaw, Itshekiri, Uhrobos, Ogba, Ogoni, etc to contend with pocket the Assembly? So, the premier will be forced to perform.

The states can become development areas, but to have 36 states and all this numerous senatorial government areas is not just the best for Nigeria, as we are going to spend all the money on recurrent.

It is the reason why the dividends of democracy are majorly enjoyed by those who are in positions, because we spend so much money on over-head.

So, I advocate the restructuring of the country to six regions, to unicarmera Assembly and a parliamentary system, where people who emerge as ministers must first of all go to the parliament.

That will reduce the friction between the arms of government, because members of the Parliament will also be in the executive arm, so the friction that has characterised executive/legislative relationship and face-off will be eased.

I also advocate a one term of seven years, because elections are too frequent and expensive and have become a mere ritual. At the executive level, there is never any change, in most cases, as most incumbents will normally come back.

Critics of the ongoing constitution review say it will not produce the people’s constitution in the end, unless there is a national conference?

The difficulty is that we need to be careful to avoid anarchy. The National Assembly for now proximates our mandate. Nigerians turned out to vote for them, we may argue that in some instances there were manipulations, but in the majority of cases, the votes were counted and the real winners emerged. So, they represent Nigerians. We must assume that they are the people that hold our mandate.

The truth that bedevil Nigeria are known to all; we know the problem with Nigeria. There is consensus on major issues on the Nigeria problem, so even if you go into a dialogue or a gathering of ethnic nationalities, it won’t produce anything different from what we already know.

We would begin to become anarchic if we try to say the National Assembly does not have sovereinty. Then  who has sovereinty?

Looking at the divergent positions of the North and South on fundamental issues, like state creation, state police, resource control, etc, don’t you think this review may end up as exercise in futility?

These issues were there even in our own tenure, but it did not prevent us from arriving at concensus on particular areas.

You see, people should not think of it as a wholesale amendment of the constitution, because it is done peace meal. Where there is a consensus, they amend. It is a gradual process.

In most countries, the constitution is amended slowly and deliberately, so they should  look at critical areas. And what are really the objectives? One is to unbundle our federation.

In spite of the diversity of views between the Southern and Northern legislators, they still have areas of agreement.

On the issue of state police, I am for regional police, because I think a state police will be an oppressive instrument in the hands of governors, who are dictatorial and many have shown that if given a chance, will abuse it. So, even state police will not be right for now.

If you start giving some governors state police, people who they don’t like, and these days it does not take much for people not to like you, would be run out of the state. If you give some governors state police, their opponents may not go home anymore.

Some lawmakers have raised alarm that the governors are against constitutional amendment. Looking the the heavy influence of the governors in the system, won’t they can mar the exercise?

My appeal to the governors is that they must put Nigeria first. They have so much power in this country that they can decide where Nigeria goes to, so they should choose for us, as a country, to thread the path that will lead to progress and properity.

The governors nominate or perhaps influence people for the National Assembly, federal cabinet, ambassadors, board members, apoint commissioners and local government chairmen, name it, so they have much powers.

If indeed, the governors want to change Nigeria for the better, they can do so by choosing people who can deliver.

Nigeria’s problem is that we don’t have enough people with capacity to drive change and our governors can’t afford to be parochial and petty by saying ‘this one has the capacity, but he is not loyal to me or I don’t trust him, his profile is too high ,etc.’

They must ignore sentiments and look for their bests. We must have the confidence to use our best. You can’t keep blaming the President, forgeting that he is acting or working with the instruments provided by the governors, who gave him those to be made ministers.

We should look more at the governors and how they select Nigerians who represent the states.

Also monies that go to states when they are shared, how are they used? We must stop accusing the federal government all the time.

Why is it that the average Nigerian politician wants to remain in power by all means?

In most parts of the world, people go to elective offices, for instance, the National Assembly, after they have made their marks elsewhere to offer service. But here, it may not be the case, because our democracy is just emerging.

If we have different means of livelihood, the focus and pressure on politics will be less. Because of the pecks we appear to attached to public office, everybody wants to be there. So, we must reduce the pecks of governance, which is driving the desire to participate and most times over-heat the polity in the process.

People desire to stay for ever in power maybe because they have nothing else to do. But most importantly, we must build our economy or wealth generation. We have focussed attention on a few mega businesses. No country grows that way; you grow by empowering small and medium-scale enterprises.

When there are more opportunities for livelihhod, some people will look elsewhere, rather than politics.

Why are we always having face-off between the executive and the legislature?

It is the nature of the presidential system of government that we are practising. I don’t think it will be the same if we were practising the parliamentary system.

The nature of presidentialism is that there will be constant competition between the arms of government, because the constitution gives the powers of budget approval to the National Assembly and the powers of conception and submission to the executive.

By definition, it is formular for crisis, because each party will prefer to have something wider than what the expressed words of the constitution stipulates.

But that is where human ingenuity comes in. The National Assembly must work with the President and arrive at workable budgets.

Most Nigerians believe that the National Assembly has become the conduit pipe of corruption?

It is a wrong assumption. Maybe I should use my case as an example. Before I went to the National Assembly, I was envolved in the oil and gas sector for nearly 10 yeras. Our company worked for the major oil companies, including Shell, Total, Agip and Mobil among others.

I left my business and went to the National Assembly, when I was there, I was the Deputy Speaker for four years and was never accused of corruption by anybody. I left there over nine years now, nobody has called me on any issue linked to corruption.

While I was there, I never asked for bribe from any minister or anybody, I stand to be challenged. I am an example as a member of the National Assembly.

So, what you are talking is alien to me. There are many like me in the National Assembly and the fact that a few people showed dishonesty does not mean that every member of the National Assembly is corrupt.

I take exception to that; most of us went there to serve our country dearly.

What is your take on the de-registration of some political parties by the Independent national Electoral Commission (INEC)?

I have a different view on that matter. When you stop funding parties, those that are not serious will by themselves close shop.

The issue should be for INEC to give Nigerians free, fair and credible elections. An election where there is no interference at the point of announcement and where the votes count.